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The Journal of the Debates in the Convention which Framed the Constitution of the United States, May-September 1787. Volume 2

United States. Constitutional Convention · 1787-07-19 to 1787-09-17 (convention debates recorded; excerpts reflect entries in the official journal as presented here) primary

passage 185 of 266 · Act to which the States by their Legislatures, make themselves parties, becomes a compact from which no one of the parties can recede of itself. > Section 4. "The President by and with the advice and consent of the (8/15)

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in brief
The convention weighs whether the ratification plan should be a constitutional article or a separate act and discusses the propriety and risks of dissolving the Articles of Confederation without Congress’s approval.

M^r Wilson was against a reconsideration for any of the purposes which had been mentioned.

M^r King thought it would be more respectful to Congress to submit the plan generally to them; than in such a form as expressly and necessarily to require their approbation or disapprobation. The assent of nine States he considered as sufficient; and that it was more proper to make this a part of the Constitution itself, than to provide for it by a supplemental or distinct recommendation.

M^r Gerry urged the indecency and pernicious tendency of dissolving in so slight a manner, the solemn obligations of the articles of confederation. If nine out of thirteen can dissolve the compact. Six out of nine will be just as able to dissolve the new one hereafter.

M^r Sherman was in favor of M^r King's idea of submitting the plan generally to Congress. He thought nine States ought to be made sufficient: but that it would be best to make it a separate act and in some such form as that intimated by Col: Hamilton, than to make it a particular article of the Constitution.

On the question for reconsidering the two articles, XXI & XXII--

N. H. div^d. Mas. no. C^t ay. N. J. ay. P^a no. Del. ay. M^d ay. V^a ay. N. C. ay. S. C. no. Geo. ay.

M^r Hamilton then moved to postpone art XXI in order to take up the following, containing the ideas he had above expressed, viz

Resolved that the foregoing plan of a Constitution be transmitted to the U. S. in Congress assembled, in order that if the same shall be agreed to by them, it may be communicated to the Legislatures of the several States, to the end that they may provide for its final ratification by referring the same to the Consideration of a Convention of Deputies in each State to be chosen by the people thereof, and that it be recommended to the said Legislatures in their respective acts for organizing such convention to declare, that if the said Convention shall approve of the said Constitution, such approbation shall be binding and conclusive upon the State, and further that if the said Convention should be of opinion that the same upon the assent of any nine States thereto, ought to take effect between the States so assenting, such opinion shall thereupon be also binding upon such a State, and the said Constitution shall take effect between the States assenting thereto.

M^r Gerry 2^{ded} the motion.

M^r Wilson. This motion being seconded, it is necessary now to speak freely. He expressed in strong terms his disapprobation of the expedient proposed, particularly the suspending the plan of the Convention on the approbation of Congress. He declared it to be worse than folly to rely on the concurrence of the Rhode Island members of Cong^s in the plan. Maryland has voted on this floor; for requiring the unanimous assent of the 13 States to the proposed change in the federal System. N. York has not been represented for a long time past in the Convention. Many individual deputies from other States have spoken much against the plan. Under these circumstances can it be safe to make the assent of Congress necessary. After spending four or five months in the laborious & arduous task of forming a Government for our Country, we are ourselves at the close throwing insuperable obstacles in the way of its success.

M^r Clymer thought that the mode proposed by M^r Hamilton would fetter & embarrass Cong^s as much as the original one, since it equally involved a breach of the articles of Confederation.

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topics: constitutions and founding law · political legitimacy and consent · revolution and the fall of states

The Journal of the Debates in the Convention which Framed the Constitut… · United States. Constitutional Convention · 1787