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The Journal of the Debates in the Convention which Framed the Constitution of the United States, May-September 1787. Volume 2

United States. Constitutional Convention · 1787-07-19 to 1787-09-17 (convention debates recorded; excerpts reflect entries in the official journal as presented here) primary

passage 132 of 266 · Act to which the States by their Legislatures, make themselves parties, becomes a compact from which no one of the parties can recede of itself. > act of the ordinary legislatures to be equally authentic, (54/65)

↪ you wandered here via “section-by-section voting rules” — the connecting lines are tinted below

in brief
Delegates continue Article X debates on the President’s election, considering Senate influence, proportional influence of states, and voting rules, while rejecting a plan for presidential electors chosen by the people at the state level.

Senate would hurt the feelings of the man elected by the votes of the other branch. He was for inserting "joint" tho' unfavorable to N. Hampshire as a small State.

M^r Wilson remarked that as the President of the Senate was to be the President of the U. S. that Body in cases of vacancy might have an interest in throwing dilatory obstacles in the way, if its separate concurrence should be required.

M^r Madison. If the amendment be agreed to the rule of voting will give to the largest State, compared with the smallest, an influence as 4 to 1 only, altho the population is as 10 to 1. This surely cannot be unreasonable as the President is to act for the people not for the States. The President of the Senate also is to be occasionally President of the U. S. and by his negative alone can make 3/4 of the other branch necessary to the passage of a law. This is another advantage enjoyed by the Senate.

On the question for inserting "joint," it passed in the affirmative.

N. H. ay. Mass^{ts} ay. C^t no. N. J. no. P^a ay. Del. ay. M^d no. V^a ay. N. C. ay. S. C. ay. Geo. no.

M^r Dayton then moved to insert, after the word "Legislatures" the words "each State having one vote." M^r Brearly 2^{ded} him, and on the question it passed in the negative.

N. H. no. Mas. no. C^t ay. N. J. ay. P^a no. Del. ay. M^d ay. V^a no. N. C. no. S. C. no. Geo. ay.

M^r Pinkney moved to insert after the word "Legislature" the words "to which election a majority of the votes of the members present shall be required" & on this question, it passed in the affirmative.

N. H. ay. Mass. ay. C^t ay. N. J. no. P^a ay. Del. ay. M^d ay. V^a ay. N. C. ay. S. C. ay. Geo. ay.

M^r Read moved "that in case the numbers for the two highest in votes should be equal, then the President of the Senate shall have an additional casting vote," which was disagreed to by a general negative.

M^r Gov^r Morris opposed the election of the President by the Legislature. He dwelt on the danger of rendering the Executive uninterested in maintaining the rights of his Station, as leading to Legislative tyranny. If the Legislature have the Executive dependent on them, they can perpetuate & support their usurpations by the influence of tax-gatherers & other officers, by fleets armies &c. Cabal & corruption are attached to that mode of election: so also is ineligibility a second time. Hence the Executive is interested in Courting popularity in the Legislature by sacrificing his Executive Rights; & then he can go into that Body, after the expiration of his Executive office, and enjoy there the fruits of his policy. To these considerations he added that rivals would be continually intriguing to oust the President from his place. To guard against all these evils he moved that the President "shall be chosen by Electors to be chosen by the People of the several States." M^r Carrol 2^{ded} him & on the question it passed in the negative N. H. no. Mass. no. C^t ay. N. J. ay. P^a ay. Del. ay. M^d no. V^a ay. N. C. no. S. C. no. Geo. no.

M^r Dayton moved to postpone the consideration of the two last clauses of Sect. 1. art X. which was disagreed to without a count of the States.

M^r Broome moved to refer the two clauses to a Committee of a member from each State, & on the question, it failed the States being equally divided.

N. H. no. Mas. no. C^t div^d. N. J. ay. P^a ay. Del. ay. M^d ay. V^a ay. N. C. no. S. C. no. Geo. no.

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topics: elections and representation · political legitimacy and consent · separation of powers and checks

The Journal of the Debates in the Convention which Framed the Constitut… · United States. Constitutional Convention · 1787