HKB
Executive could not be well decided, till it was seen how the formation of that department would be finally regulated. He wished the consideration of the matter to be postponed.
M^r Ghorum saw no end to these difficulties and postponements. Some could not agree to the form of Government before the powers were defined. Others could not agree to the powers till it was seen how the Government was to be formed. He thought a majority as large a quorum as was necessary. It was the quorum almost every where fixt in the U. States.
M^r Wilson; after viewing the subject with all the coolness and attention possible was most apprehensive of a dissolution of the Gov^t from the legislature swallowing up all the other powers. He remarked that the prejudices ag^{st} the Executive resulted from a misapplication of the adage that the parliament was the palladium of liberty. Where the Executive was really formidable, King and Tyrant, were naturally associated in the minds of people; not legislature and tyranny. But where the Executive was not formidable, the two last were most properly associated. After the destruction of the King in Great Britain, a more pure and unmixed tyranny sprang up in the parliament than had been exercised by the monarch. He insisted that we had not guarded ag^{st} the danger on this side by a sufficient self-defensive power either to the Executive or Judiciary department.
M^r Rutlidge was strenuous ag^{st} postponing; and complained much of the tediousness of the proceedings.
M^r Elseworth held the same language. We grow more & more sceptical as we proceed. If we do not decide soon, we shall be unable to come to any decision.
The question for postponement passed in the negative: Del: & Mary^d only being in the affirmative.
M^r Williamson moved to change, "2/3 of each House" into "3/4" as requisite to overrule the dissent of the President. He saw no danger in this, and preferred giving the power to the Presid^t alone, to admitting the Judges into the business of legislation.
M^r Wilson 2^{ds} the motion; referring to and repeating the ideas of M^r Carroll.
On this motion for 3/4, instead of two-thirds; it passed in the affirmative.
N. H. no. Mass. no. C^t ay. N. J. no. Pen^a div^d. Del. ay. M^d ay. V^a ay. N. C. ay. S. C. ay. Geo. no.
M^r Madison, observing that if the negative of the President was confined to bills; it would be evaded by acts under the form and name of Resolutions, votes &c., proposed that "or resolve" should be added after "bill" in the beginning of sect 13. with an exception as to votes of adjournment &c. After a short and rather confused conversation on the subject, the question was put & rejected, the States being as follows,
N. H. no. Mass. ay. C^t no. N. J. no. Pen^a no. Del. ay. M^d no. V^a no. N. C. ay. S. C. no. Geo. no.
"Ten days (Sundays excepted)" instead of "seven" were allowed to the President for returning bills with his objections N. H. & Mas: only voting ag^{st} it.
The 13 Sect: of Art. VI as amended was then agreed to.
Adjourned.
THURSDAY. AUGUST 16. IN CONVENTION.
M^r Randolph having thrown into a new form the motion putting votes, Resolutions &c. on a footing with Bills, renewed it as follows--"Every order resolution or vote, to which the concurrence of the Senate & House of Rep^s may be necessary (except on a question of adjournment and in the cases hereinafter mentioned) shall be presented to the President for his revision; and before the same shall have force shall be approved by him, or being disapproved by him shall be repassed by the Senate & House of Rep^s according to the rules & limitations prescribed in the case of a Bill."
M^r Sherman thought it unnecessary, except as to votes taking money out of the Treasury which might be provided for in another place.
On Question as moved by M^r Randolph